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Turmoil as deep-rooted beliefs are dug up

JamesKnight300Regular Network Norwich and Norfolk columnist James Knight says the hardest thing for dyed in the wool atheists might be the change of mind itself.


A thought suddenly popped into my head the other day as I was traveling to work - what if an atheist finds out he is loved by our Lord Jesus; how would that affect his senses and his emotions? After all, at the very core of disbelief in God is a sensibility which cries out that one is not loved by Him. It sounds perfectly obvious, particularly when we look at the problem the other way round. A man who acts as though there is no God naturally acts as though God does not love him. That is perhaps the biggest solecism in the world and the principal reason why the atheist looks at the matter of Christianity in such a way. St Paul said that the message of the cross is ‘foolishness’ to those who see Christianity in this way – they are, to use his term, ‘perishing’, because they are behaving as though they are unloved, and they are almost entirely missing the message of what having a loving God brings to this world. The inverse of this is, of course, the point at which one realises that they are loved by Christ, and that is when a man will be ready to accede to Christ’s guidance in asking for revelation (Matthew 7:7)
 
I’m reminded of a very interesting remark made by moral philosopher Richard Hare who imagined a man that had lived all his adult life embracing Nazism and the principles of National Socialism; a man that supported the final solution and was wholly committed to seeing it through. Hare then imagined this man being told that in fact a discovery has been made that he is not the son of his supposed parents, but of two pure Jews, and the same is true of his wife. After hearing that news what is the likelihood of his saying “All right then, send me and my family to Buchenwald!”. In a similar sense, I doubt very much whether anyone could understand fully the love that is on offer to them and instead choose a route that is contrary to their very being. The more one understands God the less one wants be away from Him, or live apart from Him; thus I think the example by Hare has close parallels – for I do not think any man could get a proper purchase on what Christ’s dying really means for him and still go on to declare a desire to have nothing to do with Him. 
 
Psychologists have shown that there are various rules of endowment which protect one’s mind in the analysis of gains and losses. It is known that human beings place a much higher premium on not losing (that is, protecting what they already have) over failing to gain (that is, losing out on a potential increase). Imagine that there were one thousand tickets put on sale for a very unique and special event, say, an important sports event or music concert that only happens once every few years. If the thousand tickets sold out within a few minutes and a study was conducted involving a group of people who missed out and were offered the chance to buy a ticket at an increased rate, and a group of people who had purchased a ticket successfully but were presented with the opportunity to sell theirs, you would find that those doing the selling would place a much higher price of sale on theirs than those who were looking to buy would place on their maximum buying expenditure. 
 
In short, we treasure what we have and the emphasis on not losing it much more than what we could gain – and this, I think, gives us a little insight into some of the potential feelings and ponderings the atheist faces as he balances what he has with what Christ is offering him. We see an example of this in Matthew’s gospel:
 
A man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments". "Which ones?" the man enquired. Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honour your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbour as yourself.'" "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Matthew 19:16-22
 
That such a moral and decent man could be told his lifestyle was lacking is astonishing, but for all the qualities this man possessed he lacked the vital one, the cost was too much – he could not shift the emphasis from what he had to what Christ has. Often the changes Jesus demands of us are changes that undermine much of our way of life, but you can be sure that it is because He knows our present way of life is not enough to make us fulfilled. It is here that Christ wishes to step in and make us right. Yet in the Christian life as well as the atheistic life, the spectre of change – particularly the sort of change that undermines a deep felt principle (however good it appears at the time) – is not always something that is anticipated as Christ would like us to anticipate it. 
 
Much of the above is, as I said, conditioned by the particular decision we have already made and our propensity to stand by those decisions until a situation comes our way that renders the retention of those decisions too inimical or hostile for continuation. In psychology this is called the ‘sunk cost fallacy’ – we continue to make emotional investments in a situation once we resourced it sufficiently to call it a ‘conviction’. That explains why it is so hard to talk people out of bad decisions and, in particular, bad belief systems – it is not so much that they are wedded to the underlying philosophies of the beliefs themselves (although that is true to an extent) it is more to do with having those beliefs and the proprietary investments made early on when he or she began to formulate them. 
 
Of course we see this happening in much simpler propositions than the relatively complex matters like religious beliefs. To give you an example of the sunk cost fallacy; we are more likely to endure a movie that we know we will continue to dislike if we have paid to watch it. We are much more likely to turn it off if there were no financial costs attached to our watching it. Equally, we are more likely to continue eating something that is dull to our palate if we paid for it than if it came our way free of charge; in fact, the manner in which an item or object came our way conditions very much how we view it in relation to its costs and our liking it. 
 
Thus when it comes to the atheists we meet and our mission to convey to them the good news that we have an amazing God who loves them very much and wants a relationship with them – sometimes our biggest challenge can be less about the prospect itself, more about our ability to understand why people have these beliefs in the first place, how much emotional investment has been resourced into those beliefs, and whether we have the presence of mind to help induce a ‘change of mind’ in them – after all, as we have seen, the change of mind can be the biggest challenge of all, and may well define why they believe what they do about God and his potential to love them.
 
Having looked at the work we have ahead of us helping atheists change their mind, and the concept of the ‘sunk cost fallacy’ where people have the tendency to stick to their decisions once investment in them has reached a certain level of conviction and commitment. This week I want to talk about something inversely related to the sunk cost fallacy – it is called the law of diminishing returns - it is about showing prudent judgment in constructing an optimal stopping tool. In other words, it is about showing wisdom and clarity of mind in giving up things that are bad for you by shortcutting the process of decision-making. In some cases, less is more. Let’s have a look at a practical example.
 
dyed in the woolMathematicians John Gilbert and Frederick Mosteller created a natural logarithm to demonstrate a technique for short circuiting the much lengthier process of choosing between a number of given options. By dividing a given number by e (which is roughly equal to 2.72 in the logarithm) you can increase your chances of finding the optimum choice in a set of options. For example, let us say that you wanted to buy a rare first-edition book on the Internet and you found 100 websites that had the book available for purchase (all with varying prices) you could use Gilbert and Mosteller’s logarithm to give yourself a higher chance of finding the cheapest quote for the book without logging onto every one of the 100 websites. This would save you time and the trouble of visiting every website and comparing 100 prices. By dividing the number of options by e you can achieve this with any number of candidates or options. Dividing 100 by e gives you 37, so instead of trying out all 100 websites, you would try 37 (100 ÷ 2.72) and go with the next quote that beats the first 37. This works because by observing 37 percent of the prices offered and then picking the next best price the law of probability says that the amount of times the best priced book will appear in the percentage of books after the second best book is great enough to increase your chances by stopping at ‘the next best priced book’ after 37. 
 
This also works in gambling. If you fancied a flutter one afternoon and decided on, say, 20 bets - using the same logarithm you could maximise your chances of walking away at the best possible time by making 7 bets and then stopping at the next bet that wins you more than the previous biggest win. There are, of course, simpler ways that people utilise the law of diminishing returns. A good example is the lottery – by choosing higher numbers you can increase your chances, not of winning the jackpot, but of not having to share it with lots of people. This is done by choosing numbers that are chosen less-frequently than others, thus maximising your chances of choosing a unique six number combination. The reason higher numbers are less-frequently chosen is because the numbers 1-31 are chosen more superstitiously, often because they resonate as birthdays or other special dates on the calendar. Also studies of sublimity show that numbers on the slip that are more peripherally situated (on the edges of columns) are more likely to be chosen, so a combination of higher numbers on the edges of the ticket will maximise your chances of choosing a unique combination of six numbers.  
 
Of course, all this sounds a bit like exact science, so one must ask – how is this supposed to help our Christian ministries? Well, apart from providing prudence in knowing when to give up something or when to walk away from something or how to maxmise potential, it helps us become shrewder in our outlook, particularly as we realise that life and the beliefs people adopt in their lives are in a sense related to, and concomitant with, the aforementioned standards of analysing and choosing. 
 
In order to see how the acts of analysing and choosing stand up against the sensibilities and traits of the individuals, and how the law of diminishing returns in relation to atheism shows that the atheist’s rate of intellectual and emotional harvest beyond a certain point fails to increase in proportion to additional labour or investments, we must realise something very important. Atheists who have reached a point at which they feel positive beyond belief that there is no God will not view the Christian faith the same as we do, and therefore it is obvious that we are not likely to convince them of the good news by continuing down a road that they have long ago perceived as a cul-de-sac. Before we can do our bit in offering an atheist a stupendous pair of clarity-inducing glasses, we have to first ask for God’s help in giving him a new set of features so that the glasses will fit. When dealing with dyed in the wool atheists we are, in effect, asking God for a miracle, we are asking Him to help us help our atheist companions walk along a road that they perceive as a dead end. And as the law of diminishing returns shows us, it is no good persisting with methods that have already become unfruitful – we must go back a few steps; that is, we cannot begin with our influence until we have understood what is behind our atheist friend’s convictions.
 
And this, I think, is something vital that is often overlooked or misunderstood in Christian proselytising or Christian witnessing – the importance of which cannot be understated; after all, we all have people in our world that we love and care very much about, and who we would love to see come to Christ, so it is the convictions of the atheist that we must look at next.  
 

What might be behind the atheist’s convictions?

Although not wishing to invoke a standard set of atheist archetypes or customary set of oppositional typologies I have concluded from my aggregation of correspondence with atheists, from my friendships with them, and from my studies of psychology in my teens and early twenties that there are commonalties in atheism that, although perceptible in human beings in general, make a distinct compound personality of resistance to Christianity when mixed with facets of their own nurtured personhood. In other words, there are certain fears, insecurities and anxieties in personhood that the Bad One will use to extract from the eternity that God has set in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11) and educe something hitherto unrealised – the bringing forth of his bad intentions into a man’s personality with the purpose of making the good news of Christianity appear to conflict with his own doubts, fears, insecurities and anxieties (the more the Bad One has hold of you the less you know about it). 
 
Once this process begins the man is already starting to believe that no God could exist – and because of his doubts, fears, insecurities and anxieties embedded in his own personhood he will be a poor judge of his own convictions. As Denman said - “Trial by jury itself will be a delusion, a mockery, and a snare”. There are all sorts of facets to one’s nurturing and to one’s environment and background that will condition much about how a man will feel about the good news of Christianity. I have made a list and posed them in the form of questions rather than allegations or indictments. If you are an atheist reading this or if you are a Christian who has people in your world that you are praying for, it is useful to think carefully about these questions and how they might affect someone’s potential for realising the good news. Of course one must be mindful of something else before we look at the questions – if someone is affected by one, some, most, or all of these, this does not necessarily mean that they are aware of how these issues are affecting them – they may be aware of the effects only to the degree to which the subconscious or subliminal aspects of their personality allow the mind access to the self’s history. Having established this, we are now ready to look at the questions:
 
1) Have you, through parental indoctrination (usually fideist indoctrination), Sunday School, a strict Catholic school or education, oppressive religious teacher, or some other oppressive variety, had bad experiences in your younger years that have yielded negative feelings towards God or religion?
 
2) Have you issues in your past that yielded anger towards things associated with the Bible, how some of the verse were taught to you, and the effect those verses had on your life?
 
3) Does remembrance of some of your past experiences elicit in you questions like ‘Where was God in those days when I needed Him?’ and ‘How has He allowed these bad things happen to me and those around me?’.
 
4) Have you an idealised view of the world God would have, in your view, created, the mental picture of which does not match or complement the world you see?
 
5) Do you have grumbling insecurities that can be appeased by attaching yourself to those you think are ‘in the know’?
 
6) Do you suffer from a lack of clarity when it comes to analyticity and seeing the broader picture - a lack of clarity that causes you to see Christianity as a set of beliefs that conflict with your everyday worldview?
 
7) Are you worried by how friends and loved ones would react if you became a Christian - that they might see you as gullible, vulnerable, desperate, or that there might be conflicts and quarrels, etc?
 
8) Do you have a proclivity for absent-mindedness - always looking out of the window and missing the window itself?
 
9) Are you fixed on a journey that puts yourself in sole charge of the destination?
 
10) Have your experiences caused you to have any of the following…
i) Preoccupation with the spectre of ridicule?
ii) Repudiation of things beyond instinctive understanding?
iii) Subliminal hatred of authority?
 
11) Do you have one, some, most, or all the following fears…
 
Fear of vulnerability?
Fear of the numinous?
Fear of commitment?
Fear of abandoning comfort zone properties?
Fear of the unknown?
Fear of new social groups?
Fear of being in the spotlight?
Fear of radical change?
Fear of the self-honesty that is going to come from knowing God?
Fear of admitting that you really are a sinner in God eyes?
Fear of the changes that Christ would make in you once He started to do His work in you?
Or perhaps a bigger more general fear that it might all be true and that you’ll have to make some life changes?
 
Although we have said before that part of the atheistic delusion involves a failure to see some of the above with any degree of clarity, and that part of our response is in realising the lengths to which people will go to stay wedded to this type of falsehood - what is often referred to as ‘willful ignorance’ – we must remember that much of the above remains attached to sensitive issues in people’s lives, therefore we must not be people that try to enforce others to give birth to new and better ideas, we must be like gentle and patient midwives who help others to perfect the methods of giving birth to their own better ideas. 
 
Here in this message we are touching on something that we do not often touch on – we are looking at the very real and very sensitive issues often involved in the subject of faith-based belief. It is these issues that make such a subject so contentious and can cause someone so much offense, even when the Christian is being kind and caring – for in atheism we are not just dealing with a set of convictions, we are, in all likelihood, dealing with the emotional and experiential precursors that caused such convictions in the first place, and as we have seen from the above, some of these precursors are very challenging and personal. 
 
I suppose in various times throughout my life I have come into contact with many of these resistances myself, yet I usually sensed that such resistances were not really directly linked to knowledge or intelligence, more to self-honesty, or a lack of it. Many ask why God isn’t more obvious, but I tell you the truth – if atheists can bring themselves to ask some pretty honest questions regarding the above, I believe that they will soon begin to see what is holding them back from realising that they were created to know Christ, and see that it was the aforementioned doubts, fears, insecurities and anxieties that caused the resistances in the first place, and stopped one having the full life that Christ promises after those resistances are broken. Moreover, although we must be cautious in our assessments, if one is candid enough to reach wise conclusions about the resistances, they probably will see that most of them fall under the category of ‘making something very simple very difficult for oneself’; but this, as I have said, is as much the Devil’s doing as it is man’s. 
 
Once this is realised the Devil can be seen for what he really is – a defeated demon, whom God has already put on the road to ruin. All of his minor victories are pyrrhic victories– he wins only a few battles, the war has already been won by Christ. 
 
Despite every bad experience that any has had under a religious title, or with a religious label attached to it, or with an oppressive stigma, the wind sends all of them back the words ‘Jesus loves you’ - for He is God unveiled in the flesh - our God on the cross proclaiming victory. And those powerful words cut deeper than anything else in the world; the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead lives in you. There is no better news and there is nothing between Heaven and earth that can get in the way if you want to know Him.

The views carried here are those of the author, not of Network Norwich and Norfolk, and are intended to stimulate constructive debate between website users. We welcome your thoughts and comments, posted below, upon the ideas expressed here. You can also contact the author direct at james.knight@norfolk.gov.uk  

James is a Norwich local government officer, author and Proclaimers church member in Norwich.
You can access his current collections of columns here

Meanwhile, if you want to find out more about Christianity, visit: www.rejesus.co.uk

 


., 10/03/2010

Feedback: (page   1   2)
James Knight11/03/2010 08:27
Hi Aerie,

Thanks for sharing all that. Yes I am well aware of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy - it has cropped up many times before in my discussions with non-believers. You've certainly raised some interesting issues, but I must head off to work now, so in an attempt to be commensurate with your thoughts and efforts I will give you a fuller response ASAP.

Thanks again.

Good wishes

James
Tom Booley (Guest)11/03/2010 10:04
Great message James, you really do get to the heart of the issues that so few like to penetrate. I think you need a crash helmet for some of the work you do. If I could offer my tuppence of input, I was once assistant youth-leader in a former church in Shrewsbury and we had some issues regarding what a Christian really is. Aerie's experience sounds very oppressive and unChristian and not an ideal influence for her, I'm not surprised you lost your way Aerie, that pastor sounds like a control freak. Our pastor wanted the youth group to be just Christians because he wanted to keep the meeting 'uncontaminated' (needless to say he didn't last very long). But of course we had some young people who would be hard to define as Christians or non Christians, you see so many people are finding their way, the line is often hard to draw. I know what the Bible says to ME about whether I'm a Christian or not, but that's more to do with whether I know in my heart that I'm living for God or for myself. There needs to be some boundary line between what is a disciple and not, but is this perhaps something we only discover for ourselves as individuals? I don't know. I know that defining our own boundaries leads to as much trouble as letting someone else do it. I just found that I'd rather let Christ do it over anyone else, including myself, and that is a hugely powerful reason for me to call him Lord. Simply calling oneself a Christian isn't really enough, we need the actions to back it up.

Yours in Yehsua

Tom Booley
Dr Robin Guthrie (Guest)11/03/2010 15:45
"What if an atheist finds out he is loved by our Lord Jesus"

Arrghh.. Such is the arrogance of the religious.

An atheist does not believe in God, Jesus etc etc etc, therefore the thought would never enter their head.
aerie (Guest)11/03/2010 17:06
Tom, first of all I never mentioned "my" pastor. I did mention my husband's pastor. Second, you came away w/ the false assumption that "I lost my way" so it MUST be my own fault. It's easier to lay blame at my feet instead maybe asking God why he would let such a faithful servant as me, get lost in the first place.

You wrote: "I just found that I'd rather let Christ do it over anyone else, including myself, and that is a hugely powerful reason for me to call him Lord. Simply calling oneself a Christian isn't really enough, we need the actions to back it up."

I hope that you aren't suggesting, again, that I wasn't really a Christian. If that's the case, you clearly didn't read my post as evidenced by your 1st confusion about a pastor I never mentioned. Read my testimony. Try some reading comprehension & maybe gain a new perspective instead spouting off more "godchatter".

Furthermore, I didn't "lose my way" b/c of an oppressive church, hurt feelings or whatever. I realized that if I was gonna stay 'real' for jesus, then me & him had to have a serious chat & that I had the right to ask Him some hard questions. Jesus & I had it like that. And I was sure he smiled down on me & lovingly chuckled at my sassiness.

I've always had a very sensitive BS meter even as a kid. My jesus-designed brain wasn't prone to accept junk as truth, w/o asking Him for understanding & faith to believe things impossible under the accepted laws of physics, i.e. jonah surviving in the whale's belly, the parting of the sea, water into, etc. I believed he COULD DO the impossible if He wanted to, he just chose not to for whatever reason, I mean he's god, he has his reasons.

To learn & gain real knowledge we must tuck away our emotions as they can be irrational & unclear. I had to think w/ my brain, rationally, honestly. I knew my faith would come out deeper for I was truly seeking truth.

But you see, I could no longer tell my rational brain to shut-up about the obvious holes in the whole concept of living by faith. Conversely, I could no longer swallow the guilt from my faith brain for even admitting any holes existed.

That, James, is true cognitive dissonance. Reason (reality) vs Faith (ladies turning to salt). Can't be both. My brain, my concious being, could no longer ignore the holes & remain true to myself. So, terrified of blasphemy & hell, I took a baby step away from faith. I took a terrifying, painful, look at what I saw. The evidence for god doesn't measure up. The whole story is so comically unbelievable to those honest w/ themselves. Like it or not, I had to accept evidence of reason over my desire to safely cling to my religious emotionalism (faith).

So, I had some life adjustments to make.I had to learn to listen to that old 'self' that jesus said was born into sin & I should deny. A little grief over, no more heaven, no dead loved ones waiting. Fear of Hell took a while to get over & that makes sense. I enjoyed the freedom w/o an imaginary "presence", listener, judge, spy. It's been a ~3+ yr transition. It's never an overnite decision for most, but there's usually an epiphany at some point that seals it. Some of the emotions linger, I still cry when I hear my favorite hymns, but I never think it might be jesuslove.

I never did hear from Jesus. He never provided me the faith or anything else I begged him for. So, if there is a benevolent god, if he wants me, he'll know where to find me. I'll be happy to talk.

James, your list of introspective questions for atheists are transparent guilt traps to stir up old religious emotionalism. It won't work.
We don't experience guilt the same as xians. We accept ourselves as flawed humans, no need to bring "sin" into it. Atheists ARE capable of recognizing our wrongs, we feel remorse very deeply. But guilt implies, judgement & need for punishment. And unless it's in a court of law, then those words are meaningless. Some "flaws" are genetic, familial, we can't control or change these. To insert guilt or imply they can & should be healed by god is your belief and not one we would fall for.

Sorry so long. These are complex concepts & are not easily translated from one pov to another over the net. I'm done "sharing". Thank you for showing a sincere interest and for allowing me to express my unpopular opinion. I've bookmarked the site & I'll do some reading from time to time.
aerie (Guest)11/03/2010 17:20
James, Don't know if you do the moderating here but feel free to read & remove my posts if nec. They are so long. I didn't intend to go into such depth. I tend to overexplain things for fear of being misunderstood. We're the only ones really corresponding & they're too long to read for most folks. Do what you need to do.
James Knight13/03/2010 12:48
>> "An atheist does not believe in God, Jesus etc etc etc, therefore the thought would never enter their head."

Right, yes of course, an atheist has never changed his/her position to 'find God' - once an atheist always an atheist, I must have missed that one Robin. Perhaps I was distracted by the tens of thousands of former atheists who found God in adulthood.
James Knight13/03/2010 13:10
The question raised by Aerie and Tom regarding ‘What is a Christian?’ is an interesting one, and I agree it can cause some confusion. Here’s how I see the situation, and Aerie, this is a general viewpoint, not about you as an individual.

I do think there may be a line, but it would have to be Christ who draws it, not us....believing He is God, assenting to His two principal commandments (which covers most good works), and that we should 'walk in them' (see Ephesians 2).

Stalin is generally accepted to be a Communist and is the main reason why Communism is so demonised in the West. However his actions and behaviour show that he was not a communist at all. No communist acting on the Manifesto of the Communist Party as written by Marx and Engels would have done what he did. For example, the final paragraph of chapter two which sets out the history of bourgeois society and the future of a communist society says, "In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." Stalin merely replaced the old class system with a new one with party apparatchiks as the new "bourgeoisie" and there was no free development for the mass of the people at all. He called himself a communist and some people accept he was, but this is indicative of an unhealthy a la carte method of choosing whatever one fancies for oneself. We do not ascribe something to someone just on their say so – actions speak louder than words.

Stalin was no Communist, but he was able to use the pick and mix method by using some parts of the Communist Manifest to support his claim that he was a communist. For example the Manifesto also lays out ten points which include centralisation of credit in the hands of the state by means of a national bank, and centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state", which Stalin certainly did adhere to, but he did this to further his own ends not as a means to aid the free development of all as Marx and Engels propounded.

The trouble with the pick and mix method is that it can be used for all sorts of gain, the nature of which can burr the boundary line and make the clear distinction difficult, sometimes impossible. In other words, where is the line between being a communist and a bit of a communist and not one at all? There may not be one. One could argue that if the system as it could be put in place as an ideal was consistently acted on, socialism is worthwhile, but that wouldn't make that person a socialist. Equally, a capitalist could disagree that there isn’t any ideal in socialism at all, so he could be considered non-socialist with no ambiguity.

Now if we take another example, such as when a man calls himself teetotal – here there is a clear boundary line; anyone who drinks whisky occasionally is not teetotal, and this does not depend on varying definitions or subjective interpretations – the line is clear, only a man who drinks no alcohol is a teetotaler.

So regarding the question of whether or not or there is a line that defines a Christian from a non-Christian, one thing seems perfectly clear – we cannot simply say that those who have followed some of the Christian precepts are necessarily Chrisitan, for that would make virtually everyone Christian, as virtually everyone has in some way followed some the Christian precepts, it would be hard not to, given their ubiquity and they are cardinal to most humans’ thinking. In fact, every one of us must even by accident follow some of Jesus teachings.
James Knight13/03/2010 13:11
Continued..

Given the murderous and barbaric behaviour of some so-called ‘Christians’ in history, is there a line which one can cross and no longer be called a Christian? Given that the Christian faith is built on grace not works, I rather doubt the severity of the sin has much to do with it – all can find forgiveness in Jesus Christ, although one would expect that the sins will become less severe for one who genuinely seeks good progress in a relationship with Him. So how do we identify what this seemingly elusive line is? I view the situation like this. Being a Christian is about a 'relationship' with God - the God we see in Christ - who identifies Himself as the bridegroom of the church (the ecclesia) - therefore this relationship could be viewed less like a set of rules, and more like a marriage, based on love and commitment.

If one has accepted the above is found in Jesus then we are 'his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works', so not only should Godliness emanate from our marriage, we should be committed to becoming Christ-like as our growth increases. In a marriage between a man and a woman, there may well be paperwork, but the real essence of marriage is how each feels abut the other, what they are prepared to put into it and how their love will be demonstrated as they try to become the very best beloved possible. No analogy is perfect because there is nothing comparable to man's relationship with God, but if we consider a Christian to be a man who takes his relationship seriously, and compare that to a man who takes his marriage vows seriously, we can see that if he is the sort of man who is unfaithful, cruel, dishonest, disrespectful, selfish and controlling, and with no signs of ever improving, he is not really suitable as a husband - he may call himself a 'husband' but in the sense of what makes marriage special and durable he is no husband at all, and could find himself divorced.

So while the line is hard to define as none of us has access to another mind, Christ, who knows everything, would know His ecclesia based on whether they call him Lord and whether they make Him Lord of their lives. Now in that sense there are many who call themselves Christians but who do not demonstrate the actions or morals of someone imbued with Christ's spirit. For a Christian, just like a husband in a marriage, if he is serious about the relationship will strive to work at it and grow as the marriage requires him to grow. Not only will the Christian who is living by these examples continue to live with Him and grow, he or she could hardly wish for anything else. To be anything else would be to divorce oneself from God. Christ said 'by their fruits you will rescognise them' - He is the vine we are the branches, and I would like to suggest that to be this way is to be on a different trajectory to those whose main agenda is power and control, which often leads to behaviour much worse than the average atheist. That is about as far as I can take it, because one cannot know another person’s mind, not in something as complex as his relationship with God, so I would have to concede the final analysis is up to God and God alone.

Aerie, given that I cannot know the inner workings of your mind, I cannot of course be sure precisely why you feel as you do. You appear to be a very good hearted, genuine searcher who has been rather disappointed/sceptical about what the Christian faith can add to your life (perhaps for perfectly understandable reasons). You see belief in God as contrary to rational thinking – I see belief in God as assenting to rationality. But God is a storyteller, and the Bible is the best love story of all – and I guess your interpretation of whether His story can enrich your life depends primarily on how you view the notion that He died for you personally, as well as everyone else.

Let us imagine Aerie that the proof you are looking for will be given to you tomorrow - Jesus will do something miraculous to show you He is really who he claims to be, and it will be to your satisfaction. All you have to beforehand is consider your feelings on John 3:16 - that is, your views on what it means to have a God that loves you enough to go through all that suffering to live as we have lived, and die for you. You see, I think the most important issue to consider is how one actually feels about that; I say this because at the end of the day, if one is to consider the claims properly then it involves the realisation that Christ died for you, me, and everyone else as individuals - so your consideration of this must be bound up in how 'you' feel about what is being offered and how it relates to your own life.

Your issues/feeling will be different to everyone else's (and that applies to each of us). The good news conveys that God loved you so much that He would have gone through all that pain and suffering and sacrifice if it had been just you and nobody else. What if the truth were so profound and deeply sublime that in fact God would have considered it worth it if it had been just you? If there were some proof available to you, what are your feelings, Aerie, about what you are being asked to consider? If it were true what do you imagine Christ's dying for you would mean to you?

Best wishes

James
Michael Harrison (Guest)30/03/2010 00:59
I was a total wreck and disbeliever, I shouted at God , told Him I did not want any more of it. Things became peaceful and still. I had a clear message that there was no price to pay and that He, God, had no reproach for that which He had healed. So I know that there is a God by my instantaneously changed life. Jesus? I don't know. I accept that He lived and was crucsified. I don't care much whether He is Son of God or not. He died believing that he was atoning for my sins. That took some doing. I accept that because its something I could not do for Him. It does not make me a better human being, that's something I have to do for myself a job made easier by my having been healed in the manner described. The man Jesus gave us many good ways to behave as humans and a great way for worship. He does not appear to have told us to worship him - Jesus. He is recorded as saying "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind and all thy soul and thy neighbour as thyself" I love He who healed me, for me that is God, the Creator, the Highest or however else He may be reverently described. Can't really call myself a Christian can I? I love my Healer to the exclusion of all else. Gently. I KNOW there is God,
James Knight08/04/2010 13:36
Hi Michael,

I’ve only just noticed this - thanks very much for sharing this – it sounds like you’ve had a wonderful experience, praise God.

Regarding your comment..

“He does not appear to have told us to worship him - Jesus. He is recorded as saying "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind and all thy soul and thy neighbour as thyself" I love He who healed me, for me that is God, the Creator, the Highest or however else He may be reverently described. Can't really call myself a Christian can I?”

Well the great news Michael, you can if you recognise Jesus as the very God that we are called to love with all our hearts. Christ is the God that healed you Michael – He is the one we have to thank for everything, and it’s so awesome when we do. I talked about developing affection for Christ is my message last week - I don’t think I can post weblinks under this new NN format but it’s on my columns page under “Affection can make us more Godly”.

Also Michael, it is great if we take our hearts into the gospels and recognise that in Jesus Christ we see someone whose teachings really seem to be signifiers of something altogether wonderful – a set of moral vistas and behavioural horizons that call forth with great power the coming together of humankind into a world of love, grace, kindness, forgiveness, generosity, charity, and many other successes for a human race that has gone so wrong.

Whatever else we say about the Bible, and in particular the nature of Isaiah’s prophecies about the coming of Christ, one thing is for sure, there has never been a book in the history of the world quite like this before. The prophet Isaiah tells us that this man, about whom prophesies are made in relation to Him being God walking on earth, will be ‘despised and rejected by men’, that He will be ‘a man of sorrows who is familiar with suffering’ and that He would be despised and unesteemed (53:3). The sort of God who was prophesied about in Isaiah 61 is described in the following way:

“The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the LORD's favour.”

In Luke’s gospel (chapter 4) we see that Jesus Christ unrolled this very scroll and proclaimed the same things about Himself. It would be Jesus who would fulfill this prophecy – it is He who is the visible representation of God on earth. He is the one to ‘preach good news to the poor’, and to ‘bind up the brokenhearted’, and to ‘proclaim freedom for the captives’ and ‘release the prisoners from darkness’. The God in Heaven who is so unreachable and inexpressible to man was to be found in fullness in Jesus Christ – our Almighty God became what we are to suffer and die for us so that we can be reconciled to Him. And remarkably the prophets of old knew this and wrote about it hundreds of years before it occurred. There has never been anything like this in the history of the world – the incarnation is the point at which God reveals Himself in a way that would be unfathomable if He had not become a man.

All the other religions are about what ‘we’ can do to please God or gods. Christianity has it the right the way round, it is about what ‘God’ can do to please us by making Himself known in Christ and by offering His Holy Spirit to any who want to know Him. I think this is the only truth in relation of God to man and man to God that we have ever been given, and it is inexpressibly more than we could ever need in order to come to know Him.

I’m so glad you experienced a miracle Michael, and I thank you again for sharing this. I hope and pray that the source of that miracle – Christ, the giver of all great miracles – becomes a tangible part of your life and blesses you abundantly.

Best regards

James

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